this past november, i had the opportunity to speak with charlie sellars, an award-winning author of what we can do: a climate optimist’s guide to sustainable living. his joy-forward book provides a practical, data-based framework to guide readers towards positive impact across their personal, professional, and political lives.

sellars is also a director of sustainability at microsoft, where he has led sustainability projects in both consumer hardware and cloud operations. in this role, he was recognized by the im100 awards as one of 2024’s top 100 most impactful individuals in the digital infrastructure industry.

on nov. 9, 2025, sellars spoke at a tedx conference at middlebury college, and his talk, titled “let’s make sustainability fun again”, invited audiences to rekindle the joy of working in sustainability through cutting-edge environmental science and technology.  

the following interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

josette chun: thank you, charlie, for being with us today and for sharing your insights on your newest book, what we can do. i first want to ask how you view the current corporate sustainability ecosystem — what are we doing well, what needs to happen, and what the future holds? 

charlie sellars: part of the reason i wrote my book is because of how amazed i am at how rapidly our understanding of sustainability has evolved in the corporate world. now that significant private investment has joined public funding and academic research, we’re getting to the point where sustainability is moving from “science experiment” to “scaled solution” in just half a decade.

for example, in my book, i talk about something i call the “make it, move it, lose it, use it” framework. in essence, you can break the lifetime impact of any product we use into these four buckets. historically, most people have conceptualized their impact only in terms of whether we’re leaving the power on or off, or of “losing” something (i.e., whether we’re recycling it or just throwing it away). 

however, there is a huge hidden impact in what it takes to make something and move it around the world to your door. for an average phone or laptop, the energy required to make it in the first place is often more than a decade’s worth of use. even after all the sustainability features we added to reduce its impact by half, my own book still takes about a year’s worth of phone charging to make a single physical copy.

this insight is only possible because the underlying science – called a “life cycle assessment” – has matured to the point where we can start tracking the impact of our products all the way back to the original mining of the raw materials. and now companies, including my own, are applying this framework to products so customers can start seeing the lifetime emissions of their things. i would be shocked if, by 2030, we didn’t have this sort of “nutrition label for impact” on most of items we buy. we already have these for many categories, such as consumer electronics, food, construction equipment, and building materials.

another implication of this is that regular people within companies are now more empowered than ever to know how they can contribute to sustainability. it is becoming easier for an average employee not only to see how they might fit in, but also to measure the results of their work. this is a critical turning point for how we should think about corporate climate action.

jc: it sounds as though you offer insights into how we can work “within a system” rather than rejecting it outright. how do you address the critiques of those who believe that institutions perpetuate individual blame for the climate crisis and push for degrowth? 

cs: you can pursue profit within a company while still contributing to de-growth (or at least decoupling) at the system level. that tension is where some of the most interesting work happens.

for example, in consumer electronics, companies are incentivized to sell as many devices as possible, which might lead them to prioritize sales over features like repairability. if devices are difficult to repair, customers will replace them more frequently, which drives growth but increases waste and emissions. but customers clearly want devices that last, so our team saw an opportunity to compete by prioritizing repairability.

by doing that, the total number of devices society needs can shrink, even as our company captures a larger share of the market. in other words, the overall “pie” gets smaller, but our slice gets bigger. the company still seeks profit, but the system is moving toward degrowth because fewer products are needed overall. 

that said, degrowth at the global level is extremely difficult while the population continues to grow. long-term, population growth will slow, and degrowth will occur naturally, but in the meantime, we cannot wait. we have to act pragmatically within the systems we work in. whether it is our workplace, home, or school, working inside an institution means accepting tension. i would have no ability to effect real change at microsoft if i said, “i don’t want the company to grow.” i would simply be fired. the balancing act is learning to initiate incremental changes (while holding true to your values). 

framing is also essential for corporate sustainability leaders to take action in mitigating negative environmental impacts. we always start our strategy with an emissions forecast called our “business as usual”. this strategy assumes emissions grow in line with business growth. we then set up and finance decarbonization projects to reduce emissions against the baseline forecast until we establish a roadmap to meet our climate goals. in this consumer hardware example, rather than telling the business, “let’s sell a million fewer pcs” to reduce the growth forecast, the language shifts to “let’s source recycled materials, decarbonize the supply chain, and improve repairability for the million pcs we plan to sell.”

is there a significant environmental opportunity to reduce the “business as usual” forecast first, so we have an easier starting point? sure. but that’s where folks working outside the system can exert their influence, for example, through policy and regulatory work or by shaping customer sentiment. pragmatically, though, we need people on both sides of the equation.

jc: what is the next frontier for individuals entering the esg and corporate sustainability fields today? 

cs: around 2020, most major corporations set sustainability targets and built their initial teams. as a result, there are fewer opportunities to create sustainability programs from scratch inside large companies today. what is happening now is even more interesting: those large companies are pushing sustainability requirements down their supply chains. smaller companies that want to keep major clients are rapidly setting targets, tracking emissions, and reporting progress, often for their first time.

this is creating demand for sustainability roles at smaller and mid-sized companies, regardless of federal politics. people are being hired specifically to help suppliers understand carbon accounting, clean energy procurement, and reporting.

another significant opportunity is water. carbon accounting is relatively mature, and we have clear standards and protocols for ghg emissions. water accounting is about a decade behind. most companies only track direct water use and ignore water embedded in electricity and supply chains. that will change, and when it does, demand for water regulation will explode. waste and biodiversity are also emerging areas. biodiversity credits and nature-based solutions are still in their early stages, but will grow significantly.

jc: what are your thoughts on nature-based credits and setting a monetary value on nature?

cs: the moral argument alone for conservation is, unfortunately, not enough to drive large-scale corporate action. that is uncomfortable, but it is reality. to mobilize capital, environmental benefits must be translated into business value. that is why credible carbon removal, water replenishment, and nature-based credit markets matter so much. for example, at my company, we no longer buy traditional carbon offsets. we only invest in verifiable carbon removal — projects that demonstrably remove emissions from the atmosphere.

we structure these contracts similarly to clean energy power purchase agreements. without trusted markets and strong contracts, that capital will not flow. this approach has allowed us to fund large-scale reforestation, methane capture, and emerging carbon removal technologies. the goal is to move massive amounts of money into protecting and restoring natural systems so that companies can, in a verifiable way, claim carbon neutrality or net zero. 

jc: what advice do you have for students and early-career professionals who want to work in clean energy and private sector sustainability?

cs: you do not necessarily have to start your career in sustainability to have a long-term impact. i spent seven years building general business skills before moving into sustainability, and that made me better at my job. most sustainability professionals i work with spent much of their careers doing something else first — engineering, finance, supply chain, software, policy — and then layered sustainability on top.

corporate sustainability is still very young, so there are very few true entry-level roles. most positions require significant experience because the career ladder has not yet fully formed.

if you want to maximize impact:

• become excellent at a core skill, whether that be engineering, accounting, software, supply chain, or policy. 
• next, join mission-driven companies or climate tech startups, even in non-sustainability roles. consider learning technical niches like lifecycle assessment, carbon accounting, or water accounting. any job at an impact-forward company is a sustainability job.
• if you choose a “traditional” career path, consider how you can layer sustainability onto your personal brand, tied to your core skill. explore how you can make your existing job a sustainability job, even if a little bit.
• lastly, do not feel like you are betraying your values by building skills first, especially if that helps you become more effective down the line.

the last piece of advice i’d give to those looking to get involved in sustainability in their career is to give yourself grace if it doesn’t materialize right away. your college experience may have been around four years of your life, but your career is your next 40. you have time.

while the climate crisis is undoubtedly urgent, it will (likely and unfortunately) still be here for decades. you can build your skills before pivoting into private-sector sustainability, and if you do so first, you may be a greater agent of change.

climate tech is still growing rapidly, including in the circular economy: clean energy, batteries, grid infrastructure, green steel, green concrete, water replenishment and conservation, and carbon removal. any role in these companies contributes to impact, and who knows what amazing jobs might exist down the line when it’s your turn to join the movement!

a true conservation comeback story: the rio grande cutthroat trout, known as “cutties.” these fish were once outcompeted by other trout species until ted turner biologists and conservationists intervened to save the life histories of this unique species. 

fifteen years of restoration projects across the watersheds of the vermejo river made a thriving cuttie population possible. with a bright reddish-orange “cut” marking close to their mouth, these native trout are cherished by anglers. their home, costilla creek, is at 8,000 feet in elevation — high enough to make your ears pop! a sanctuary for this key indicator species, the beautiful oxbows, or bends in the river, and riffles provide a haven for insects, birds, large mammals, and native plant communities. 

learning about the complex mosaics of species and indigenous land practices, my week at vermejo, new mexico, was full of reciprocity and wonder. vermejo was, literally, a “heaven on earth,” as its founder, ted turner, once stated. i left vermejo with a newfound sense of hope and aspiration to re-imagine the impossible, because nature’s regenerative powers unfold the possibilities for re-growth.

click on the video above to learn more!

editor’s note: this series was made possible with the generous support of turner reserves and contributions by the turner family. all editorial content is published independently. 

planet forward’s environmental media lab led this expedition to teach the power of visual storytelling in wild spaces to convey the beauty and bounty of our planet.